Norfolk Funerals, which opened recently, is the UK’s first and only not-for-profit funeral director. It is a charity, based in Norwich, and it offers funerals at cost price for all merchandise plus a fee to cover overheads, running costs and the wages of its employees.
Eyebrows have been raised. What’s going on here? Why would they want to do this? What’s the real story? Is this some kind of money laundering operation?
Here at the GFG we’ve had a great many emails and phone calls enquiring about Norfolk Funerals. Misgivings have been voiced, some of them mundane, some exotic. At the same time, we’ve been doing our own due diligence.
With the agreement of Norfolk Funerals, we are offering this page as a place where you can ask questions and have them answered by Norfolk Funerals.
We hope that this will enable everyone to see NF for what it is.
Please, ask your question in a comments box below, and Norfolk Funerals will respond directly to it.
wishing all of you at Norfolk Funerals the very best of luck – I was one of those who emailed Charles with a question (which he has answered with a phone call – thank you Charles x). If you (NF) ever need any help with anything at all, please feel free to contact me. Keep up the good work. x
Hello, there.
Could you explein to me, please, what the advantages are to a client in using your services as opposed to a conventional funeral home offering funerals at a similar price?
Thanks,
Jenny
Hi Norfolk Funeral,
My instinct is that you’re a good thing. I’d like to ask what being not-for-profit means in terms of the way you do business.
Many thanks,
Jon
Hello, May I compliment you on a clearly worded, very attractive website. I should also like to thank you for not “borrowing” any copy from my sites (almost every other site out there offering direct cremation has been a little too free with their computer’s copy and paste function re my copyrighted material – oddly enough, when contacted, it is never the site owner “wot dun it” but some spotty geek that should know better and is not currently contactable). However, I am curious as to the purpose of so many “password protected” sections of your site. Is this a… Read more »
Hi Maggie
Thank you very much for your kind words and your support – it is very much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Wayne
Hi Jenny Thank you for what is an astute and a very good question that I am sure many funeral directors will also be considering. You asked about the advantages to a client who used our services as opposed to the services of a for-profit funeral home that offered funerals at a similar price. As far as I am aware there are no for-profit funeral homes in our county that offer the public similar funerals at not for profit prices. That said, I don’t think the answer to your question can be found in comparing goods, services and prices. Instead,… Read more »
Dear Jon Thank you for giving us the opportunity to explain how we do business. Like all good funeral directors we arrange and conduct the funerals that our clients request. One of our priorities is to keep the cost of funerals as affordable as possible, which is why we operate as a not for profit enterprise. To ensure that our funerals are as affordable as possible we supply everything we order for our clients at cost price. Where we receive a discount from a supplier, we pass this on too. We do charge a fee to arrange a funeral, as… Read more »
Dear Nick Thank you for your kind and considerate comments. Your website is a credit to the service you offer, and it mirrors your own extremely high standards. I am personally aware that you offer excellent service at amazing prices, and I would like to say that your success is a result of the hard work that you have put into your business. Some of pages at http://www.norfolkfunerals.co.uk are password protected as they haven’t yet had their content uploaded. I believe Charles has had a look behind the password protection so he can vouch for this. There is no commercial… Read more »
Hi, Wayne Thank you for that. By my calculations your prices are very similar to ours (www.saintandforster.co.uk) which are also clearly displayed on the website. Please do feel free to have a look. We have also aimed to make the website a resource in its own right as a source of information and, we would like to think, inspiration. As for the use of profits to benefit the local community, would you be able to give some examples of how you do, or plan to do this? Like Jon I suspect that you are a ‘good thing’ and wish you… Read more »
Hi Wayne I too love the concept of this, but I echo Jenny’s ‘concerns’ in that your prices don’t seem very dissimilar to Jenny’s or mine. Certainly your direct cremation is £1 less than mine. I make a reasonable profit on a direct cremation, so how do you not make a profit? I have to say that I find “…is owned by a charity” a big turn off on your home page. As a consumer I would not accept those words without knowing what charity it was. I just can’t get my head around this idea that a business is… Read more »
Sorry, it says “…established by a charity” not “owned by a charity” – I was trying to do it from memory!
I’m struggling with his as well. As an independent we make a profit while being much cheaper than the big boys but we need to hold on to profits to re-invest. Also, due to the seasonal nature of our work we need to hold on to profits to see us through those times as well. I do not make a fortune from my business but I have a decent living, working long hours (24 hours a day on call) which I feel is fair considering the risk when starting, investment and hours worked. If the business is established by a… Read more »
Can one assume Wayne will be working as a volunteer for this company?…No. I didn’t think so. Sounds all very dubious. I suspect Wayne and co will be on Watchdog before too long….
“To ensure that our funerals are as affordable as possible we supply everything we order for our clients at cost price. Where we receive a discount from a supplier, we pass this on too” That’s just coffins and maybe 10% florist discount then. I don’t know many FD’s that get a kick back from caterers and press notices. Why is it seen to be so bad for a business to make a profit. There are not many millionaire funeral directors!!! In any other line of work it is ok to run a business and, for all of your hard work,… Read more »
Hi Jenny The most obvious use of profits to benefit the local community would be by providing a partly subsidised funeral for those who have no other means to pay. An example of this would be to pay the fee for a minister or celebrant when a DWP claimant has no other access to funds. Another example would be the use of profits to provide a funeral for the £700 payment made by the DWP (so a local burial or cremation, with a service provided by a minister or celebrant, with the cost of a standard coffin included in the… Read more »
Hi Andrew
Not for profit does not mean Norfolk Funerals cannot or will not make a profit. Instead it means that any profit that is made will be recycled back into the organisation, rather than being taken as a dividend or bonus.
This approach allows charities to grow in the manner you described, but ensures their financial management is overseen by trustees who receive no financial reward for carrying out their role (other than reimbursement of travel expenses for attending meetings, etc).
Hi Nick
The taxation of charities is a specialised area and it is not one that I can advise on. My knowledge of such matters is very slim.
I tend to stick to funerals rather than accounting.
Hi Trevor
I am working for Norfolk Funerals as a volunteer, and I can assure you that I have not been paid a penny for any of the work I have put into the organisation. It’s a rewarding experience, and one I would recommend you try.
If this situation changes and I am paid for any work I do for Norfolk Funerals then my level of remuneration will be set by the charitable trustees. I am sure this will be set at a lower level than I was paid by my previous employers.
Hi Nick
In this area, the commissions are 15-20% for flowers; 10% for press notices (12.5% for the Telegraph and the Times) and 10% from some caterers. There is also a healthy mark-up on coffins, ashes containers, grave diggers, specialist hearses, dove releases, pipers and orders of service.
In fact anything other than grave purchases, cremation fees, doctors fees and minister/celebrant fees are marked up by some funeral directors in Norfolk.
Hi Wayne Thanks for your reply. I’m still having real problems with the concept. So you’re a ‘not for profit funeral home’ which makes a profit? You’re ‘established by a charity’ which remains nameless. And most strangely, you are very happy to tell the world that your ‘manager is one of only 16 people worldwide to achieve the UK’s highest possible funeral qualification’ yet he remains nameless. Are the public really more interested in a meaningless (to them) qualification than the name of someone they can contact when they need to? Call me cynical, but this kind of withholding of… Read more »
I feel the “not for profit” bit is terribly misleading. Clever marketing???
I think it wont be long before another FD in Norfolk pulls that apart be it an independent or one of the big boys!!
And I agree with Andrew……what charity?
Hi Andrew
Thanks for your comments. Having only opened we haven’t made any profit. However, if we do it will be used the same way all charities use their funds – to pursue it’s charitable objectives.
Hi Nick We will shortly be applying for registration with the Charity Commission. When registration is granted the charity number will be placed on our website. I am sad to read your comment that you think, “it wont be long before another FD in Norfolk pulls that apart be it an independent or one of the big boys!!” Funeral Directors, whether independents, PLC’s or Co-operatives have a long and much admired relationship with the charitable sector. It would serve no Funeral Director to ‘pull apart’ a charity that has been established to help people in extremely difficult circumstances. It reflects… Read more »
Wayne, the job I do both honestly and well is reward enough for me. But thanks for the suggestion
The manager…. who currently remains nameless…. would you care to name him/her yet? Or is it that this person has such a tarnished reputation that it is best they remain nameless?
Just to clarify – that the poster “Nick” is not the same person as myself – “Nick Gandon”
Ta!
still don’t see how you can market as not for profit though
Well, my opinion on this one (for what it’s worth) is one of “wait and see”.
There is many a good idea that has evolved from someone trying a different approach. The finished item may turn out to be a totally different “animal” from the expected result…
Whatever the end product, we (including the charities) are all “in business” and must evolve and make a modest profit in order to survive.
More often than not, when “buying” a funeral, people will go to who they want to to. Their choice. Even better if it’s an informed choice….
Hi Trevor
Feel free to give me a call on the office number – 01603 670817, or even better, come in and see me to have a chat.
I prefer to speak to people face to face rather than them hiding behind uncontactable internet aliases.
Our address is on our website – feel free to drop in during office hours – it would be great to have a chat over a cup of coffee.
Cheers,
Wayne
You conducted my husband’s (David Curits Broom) cremation on June 14 th 2012. Is it possible to have a print out of the break down of the costs because I have no longer access to the original invoice. This is not a complaint. I was fully satisfied with your service but it would be of great help to me if you could provide me with a dulicate copy of the invoice. Monica Broom
Hi Nick The trustees are happy that Norfolk Funerals fits the criteria of a not for profit organisation. I am not an expert in Charity Law, but there is a write up here that you can read. It’s written in plain English rather than in legal terminology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization#United_Kingdom Feel free to give me a call on the office number – 01603 670817 to discuss this, or like Trevor, you are welcome to call in and see me. If you would like to you can make an appointment and you can both pop in at the same time. It would be… Read more »
Hi Nick (Gandon)
You make some very perceptive comments. I too believe potential clients will choose who they want to choose.
Time will tell how it all works out – it’s very early days yet.
I fear there has been a lot of crossed wires here. ‘Not For Profit’ doesn’t mean that a company does not make a profit – it means that any profit made is not for the personal gain of those running the company, but for a charitable cause, e.g, in this case, helping the less well-off with funeral expenses and access to bereavement advice. I too was confused by NFs prices (not being dissimilar to ours), but Charles explained it all very clearly to me and, as such I can only wish Norfolk Funerals the best with their endeavours.
Norfolk Funerals’ premises on St Augustine’s Street, Norwich is now empty.
[…] We looked at Norfolk Funerals in May of this year. […]
As a humanist celebrant based in Norwich and working there since 2007 I can say that there is a perceived need for such a service. However I was slightly bemused by the fact that a) I could n’t find any details registered at Companies House and b) charges for services such as collection of ashes were not included in a flat rate fee. After all there is already a basic service that can be purchased from any existing FD for a flat rate fee and even in these tough economic times it is not usually asked for up front. Perhaps… Read more »
Do you handle direct disposal in the Norfolk area and can you indicate the approximate cost. Thank you.
Norfolk Funerals no longer exist.